The Selectiveness of Rock Music and the Infamous Genre!
The Selectiveness of Rock Music; and the Infamous Genre!
The Desegregation of Rock starting with Prog!
Week 25 | July 25, 2018
By The Forgotten Woman, JoOnna Silberman
This has been one of the more difficult pieces for me to write, primarily because the topic is a complex one, in both research and perception; as well as the fans it attracts; making it almost as intricate and delicate as the music produced by the genre itself. It is perplexing and frustrating, while also being transformative and exciting. Not to mention, in just listening to track after track one gets lost in the beauty of the sounds, and the exquisiteness of the songwriting and emotion it is drawn from.
I expect to get push-back and argument on this piece, because one thing I have learned over the past 3 – 4 months of research is that everyone has an opinion on the subject, and Prog (including all its sub genres) is probably the most controversial, misunderstood and tenacious genre in the Rock Community at large. With the most stubborn fan-base who love it with passion, fervor and an indignation that shall not be surpassed. And they defend their positions with the same downright audacity. Not to mention the musicians themselves, who are drawn so deeply into their craft (understandable), that they appear to be introverted and pretentious, which is not the case at all. However, this combination of fan and artist, seemingly creates an aura of foreboding and perception that the outside world misunderstands, and in response keeps their distance out of fear. The cerebral nature of Prog is filled with contradictions, argument and misapprehensions much like Classical Music was in its day. Those who play it are misinterpreted, those who adore it are defensive and combative, and those who are strangers are fearful of it and confounded by it. As I have said before, I have chosen Prog first because in my opinion it is the toughest nut to crack in our endeavor to reunite the rock industry (see link below for explanation).
To the Rock Industry and Progressive Rock Community at large:
Let me state for the record, “I love Progressive Rock Music” as much as I love Rock, the parent from which it was born. However, for me music is selective and dependent on my mood. Just like I have stated before, there is not one best musician, guitarist, vocalist, songwriter etc., there is not one best genre in the Rock community. And the constant conflict between the genres has done damage (I am talking about Rock Music Industry, not a genre), almost as much as the exhausting number of genres which have been coined over the years. The Critics and Media did not do the industry or fans any favor when they got cute and started throwing genres into the mix, because the effect only culminated the segregation of rock, which gave the appearance of a dying industry, when in fact as I wrote about in my last blog “Reuniting Rock Music One Genre at a time! We’ve Got Work to do!” , Rock music is the number one music still listened to today. Progressive Rock is the music I go to for deep thinking and which transports me to other times and another world. When I want to amerce in a aura of beauty, this is where I go. One of my favorites is by Mr. Neal Morse:
Why are the influx of too many genres and the separation of rock a problem, because when you segregate any movement your numbers of supporters appear to be less than they are! When you do not stand united and fight together you lose power, and more importantly control (I would use the present state of politics as and example, but that would truly start a war- so I won’t, and don’t you). Also, important things fall off the radar. In this case we did not keep up with the explosion of social media and digital marketing as an industry. The biggest issue created by this phenomenon is that the core, namely Rock music which is the base for Prog and all the baby genres has lost its footing visibly to the public eye and we also took our eyes off the prize collectively. Which I have also written about previously “ Calling All Rockers: Get Your Rock on and Step Up to the Bar!”
Progressive Rock goes back a long way and while I am more than willing to admit, that it certainly was embraced, elevated and evolved through the efforts and art of British musicians, I would have to add that innovators like Zappa and even perhaps Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys had their hands in it (I think Brian was a frustrated Prog musician who got stuck in Pop, and it might have driven him a little bit mad). Not to mention the Psychedelic Rock Bands and musicians of the mid 60’s. For me it all started with Zappa, Moody Blues and Pink Floyd and the mantle was picked up by Procol Haurm and Jethro Tull, and yet evolving further with bands such as Genesis, ELP, King Crimson, Yes, Renaissance, Gentle Giant, and Rush. Just to name a few. I’ve seen many arguments over this, as well as many different timelines. This is my own personal feeling and belief. But to not give Frank Zappa his due is a grave oversight. Not to mention the further contribution of American artists, and certainly the Scandinavian countries who amerced in it to the present day. Whoever and whatever you believe created the genre it was established, and is one to be reckoned with musically, structurally and creatively and continued to grow and flourish throughout the 70’s 80’s and 90’s through today with bands such as Radiohead, Dream Theater, Pain of Salvation, Spock’s Beard, The Flower Kings, Porcupine Tree, Neal Morse, Transatlantic and more. It is as relevant as it ever was with new bands and artists emerging every day and it is a privilege and honor to participate in it and continue to evolve with it. Here is a list (I share another link below) of some new releases New Prog Releases
One thing I found through my research is that first and foremost Prog fans cannot agree on the definition of Prog. I saw all out wars break out on community pages over songs, the genre, sub genres “Well that’s not really Prog, it is Prog Pop!” or “Art Prog” or better yet Art Rock… well let me clear something up for you. The word Progressive in nature implies forward thinking and evolution. It also suggests innovation, experimentation and ideation. Anything that includes these elements is indeed progressive. Stop arguing about the definition of Prog, because it is steeped in evolution and change and therefore the art form is steeped in as much flux. But most importantly, is it is Rock Music first and foremost and if Rock falters, so does Progressive Rock. Also, I have a news flash for you. Progressive rock uses multiple genres to achieve its goal. By alienating those genres, you do it and music disservice. To truly understand Progressive Rock, you truly need to appreciate and support the genres from whence it comes and where it goes. You don’t own Progressive rock and/or its definition it is owned by all the other genres that it draws on and the evolution it depends on.
Of all the genres Progressive Rock Music is by far the most complicated structurally, and in composition. If you go to the definition in any dictionary you will see a two-line definition which goes something like this (which I not agree with)
“a style of rock music that emerged in the 1970s; associated with attempts to combine rock with jazz and other forms; intended for listening and not dancing” ~ Vocabulary.com
If you go to the music libraries, you will find something more along the lines of this:
“Progressive rock (often shortened to prog or prog rock) is a form of rock music that evolved in the late 1960s and early 1970s as part of a “mostly British attempt to elevate rock music to new levels of artistic credibility.” The term “art rock” is often used interchangeably with “progressive rock”, but while there are crossovers between the two genres, they are not identical.
Progressive rock bands pushed “rock’s technical and compositional boundaries” by going beyond the standard rock or popular verse-chorus-based song structures. Additionally, the arrangements often incorporated elements drawn from classical, jazz, and world music. Instrumentals were common, while songs with lyrics were sometimes conceptual, abstract, or based in fantasy. Progressive rock bands sometimes used “concept albums that made unified statements, usually telling an epic story or tackling a grand overarching theme.” ~ *Prog Rock Archives
*The Prog Archives page goes on to describe Prog even further. Including the structure. It is worth the read.
For the sake of space and time. I have created an abbreviated definition which I constructed from 5 other definitions and I believe does a good job (not great job) of defining for the purposes of this article. Please note, that I have made it current and still relevant, rather than talking about Prog in the past tense.
“Progressive Rock (Prog Rock) is a sub -genre and form of Rock Music that pushed the limits starting in the 1960’s and evolving into and through the 1970’s to the present. The genre consists of interwoven pieces, which are more structurally complex; pushed technical and compositional boundaries; including more instruments and percussion; and its origins are usually based in a combination of and/or all of these genres: Rock, Blues, Classical, Jazz, Celtic and more. The pieces are usually longer sometimes exceeding 20 minutes, containing intros and instrumental interludes; many times, based on a concept and/or are telling a story and evoking romance, fantasy and imagination delineated in a themed album. “ ~ JoOnna Silberman, 2018
To the fans I say, “suck it up buttercup” and get out of the box! Embrace the differences and the roots. Stop getting so bogged down in the genres, because they are not your friends. Progressive is, as Progressive does.
And for cryin out loud, embrace the old with the new, if it wasn’t for the forefathers of Prog, we would not be where we are today. “Show reverence and deference to those who paved the way. You are not showing any intellectual prowess when you ignore their greatness. While I too am longing for new music, and always searching for new Prog, I also love the old prog. I do not think it makes one more or less a Prog enthusiast or aficionado. Embrace where it comes from and stop trying to appear to be above the established or mainstream prog bands. They shine a light on Prog and are a doorway into someone’s ears and mind. Try this next time you see them post Genesis or Yes, post a song in the comments and just say, if you like that, listen to this. Share your knowledge and educate. Spread the Prog! Stop combating others and being derogatory. I have always been and will continue to be partial to ELP and the others. I think that makes me a better fan, not an ignorant one.
To Rock Music Fans in General and the Estranged of Progressive Rock:
This is even a more interesting phenomenon. On any given day on our Forgotten Man Page or any of the rock music community pages across the social media channels and the internet I can post Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Genesis, Yes, King Crimson (or any other mainstream Prog artist) and the “likes” and “Hearts” are off the charts (except on the Prog community pages, I defer to my above statement on that one). I post more a obscure artist or band, and nobody even clicks on the link. I really don’t get it! What are you afraid of? If you love those the aforementioned band, why are you so unwilling to listen to others. What is it about Prog that scares you so much?
Recently a member of the prog community said some things to me, and I believe that they are very true “I can show you an element of prog in almost every rock song! Also, there is prog music in almost every movie we see today, people just don’t realize it! Prog is all over!” Progressive Rock Music IS everywhere today whether you realize it or not, yet when a new artist is presented, the public hesitate. Why?
If you love Yes, Genesis, Rush, ELP, King Crimson, The Moody Blues and others, then listen to the new bands. Frankly you are probably a Progressive Rock fan and don’t even know it, considering it is everywhere. Expand your horizons and go beyond the established mainstream bands. Try something new and something you don’t know. I challenge you to each day listen to a new artist in any rock genre, as well as Progressive Rock. If you only listen to the old, you will never know what’s new. And if you don’t like one artist, don’t stop there, try another. I am sure there will be old and new songs you discover and love. If we dig our heals into the sand and only listen to the old, we are also doing a disservice to the rock music industry and the new music will continue to get lost in the weeks in an over-saturated market filled with too many genres. Pick a genre every day and listen to something you have never heard. If you like it, share it. If you do not feel comfortable message me with it at Forgotten Man Productions and I will share it on all of our pages. Including One Nation Under Rock as well as other pages depending on the genre. If is it prog, I will share it on ProGject . Join in, participate, expand your musical brain waves. Don’t cling on to the old as difficult as I know that is, because some of the best Rock music lives in the past. But that does not mean that incredible Rock Music and Progressive Rock Music is not lying in wait! Here is a list to get you started: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_progressive_rock_artists
Here is a new 2018 release from Spock’s Beard an American Progressive Rock Band from Los Angeles originally formed in 1992 and still going strong. Try this on for size.
Progressive Rock Music Musicians and Rock Musician Worldwide:
Step out of your proverbial heads and out of your insular caves please! I know there is comfort in hanging out in our own communities with people who know and love us, but when you do not walk out into the world among strangers you become limited and suffocated. While I am aware that there are some who have done this, and done it very successfully, I challenge you to start working across genres. If your composition is based in and around other genres, invite a musician from that genre to work with you, allowing visibility across multiple genres. Do not covet your work or confine it. No, I am not suggesting necessarily commercial artists, as was done with Aerosmith and Run DMC, but more the approach of individual artists, known in their perspective genres or for their playing ability. You do not need to sell your soul to the devil in order to cross genres, as I know that thought is more likely abhorrent to you. However, when you do a project or a track, with artists from the root genre, it enables your music to be heard by more people, across several genres and it also expands the horizons of those who might not have ever heard your music. It expands your fan base and visa versa, play on other genres tracks. Also look at new genres of music there are inroads and collaborations that can be made here. Some of the newer genres which are “so called” more popular do have cross over potential. I can think of a few EDM artists (a few, not many – I am not an EDM fan) which could be considered Progressive in and over themselves. The mission is to expand the music…the key is in the term Progressive, what does that mean and in itself, doesn’t it root in other genres. Who is to say it can’t include more…
I also encourage you to start using the digital media, and social media channels more, and/or enlist the help of someone who can assist you in this. The reason the Hip Hop Industry (although we know this is not true) has seemingly taken over the market (in appearance, not in truth) is because they have mastered digital marketing. It is something Rock in general sorely needs to do, including Prog! If you have music on a movie, by all means promote that! If you are working with an artist from another genre post it and cross post it. If you don’t know what I am talking about then find someone who does. And I am not just talking about Facebook. Marketing is how we lost our visibility footing. Technology is how we lost our ability to sell music and also how the music industry has become over saturated. While I know you are all about the technology of making music, you need to get savvy on the technologies of marketing and promotion as well. As I have written, Hip Hop (for the most part, not all) is smoke and mirrors. But since music has unfortunately become more of a marketing tool these days for many musicians, it is even more important for us, Rock Music to start to advance and surpass.
Music Industry, Media and Journalist:
Stop it already with all the genres and stop drinking the Hip Hop Kook Aid. Rock is the number one music listened to today, still. If you actually look at the numbers and not stick to the headlines, you will find this to be the case.
Radio, start to play more Rock and I am not talking about the cookie cutter 3.5 minute songs, that all sound the same, wimpish, mainstream schlock that is being passed off as Rock Music. Follow BBC’s lead! Don’t believe me that Rock is the most listened to music. Do the math by looking at how the charts work. Start playing old with new, but find Rock Music, not commercial whitewash. Mix up the genres. Play alternative with Progressive, and folk etc. This is the way it used to be, and it is the way it needs to be again.
Critics and journalists, stop creating a genre for everything you hear. We have well over 100 sub genres now that fall under Rock and you are doing the same to Hip Hop. You are part of the problem, albeit, I do not think it is with malice. Rock is Rock, while I will recognize perhaps 10 or so sub genres you lost me at the sub-sub genres STOP IT! You are not doing Rock Music any good with this approach. Progressive Rock Music is Progressive Rock Music…end of story!
In addition, when I read articles such as the following piece in The Atlantic from 2017 “The Whitest Music Ever” I cringe. While I will agree, Progressive Rock has indeed been very white, I might point out to the writer that so was classical for hundreds of years, still is primarily, with a dash of color thrown in now and again, thankfully. Progressive Rock is still in play for much more than 30 seconds Mr. Parker. It is still all over the airwaves and one might even say that with the advent of genres like EDM which is evolving to be something quite different than it started out to be with bands like Defunk, Bassnectar , The Glitch Mob, Opiuo and more it has a certain and poignant influence. Don’t fool yourself, as above so below, progressive rock is still a genre to be reckoned with, and you hear it almost every day and it has a huge influence on other genres. Funny, if you look at history, classical music came and went, and came back again. Artists like Mozart were rebuked and ridiculed back in the day. It took years for colors and ethnicities to infiltrate.
http://https://youtu.be/sskmSImrhCs
Final note:
The Progressive Rock industry is just a prevalent as it was in the 60’s where it began and still thrives. Just as Classical, the original “Long Hair Music” of its day does. It incorporates too many other genres, structures and enables room for growth, and expansion to ever go away. Have you seen the movies The Assassins and The Rift, or Solaris? 2018 has some new promising progressive rock releases and the genre is not going anyway. So, Mr. Parker and other naysayers, please check your coats at the door and hold onto your petticoats. Hundreds of thousands perhaps millions still listen to progressive rock. And discounting it, and rebuking it is a mistake, as it is part of us and will continue to be. It’s not going anywhere and will only be embraced by upcoming genres and artists. You can wish it away, but would you have wished classical music away, or Jazz…Glen Miller like Mozart was also rebuked at the beginning, as were the Gershwin’s and countless Blues artists, unfortunately due to fear rather than taste. While perhaps white in nature, I am happy to say that there is some color coming into the community, but as with all things, integration takes time for many reasons, primarily outside influences…I challenge you all to go to the lists I provide and listen to several artists, not just one. Like any other music it is selective and a matter of exposure.
One of my Favorite Prog Playlists:
Shine on you Crazy Diamond – Pink Floyd
Awaken – Yes
World Without End – Neal Morse
Still you Turn me On – ELP
The Doorway – Spock’s Beard
Conquistador – Procol Harum
The Trees- Rush
Black Flame – Renaissance
From the Beginning – ELP
Biaxident – Liquid Tension Experiment
My New World – Transatlantic
Entangled – Genesis
Garden of Dreams- Flower Kings
The Music Box – Genesis
Comfortably Numb- Pink Floyd
Court of the Crimson King – King Crimson
2112- Rush
Mother Russia- Renaissance
Inca Roads – Frank Zappa
Rose Colored Glasses – Transatlantic
On Reflection – Gentle Giant
The Witches Promise – Jethro Tull
Falling Home – Pain of Salvation
Dance of Eternity – Dream Theater
Signs – Frost
Roundabout – Yes
Listen to the playlist on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsRFm-Q1ESLvmVz5MqBVVziqqxN2x_2MZ
Enjoy!
Cheers and thanks for reading,
JoOnna Silberman, The Forgotten Woman at Forgotten Man
Follow us on Facebook, and visit us on YouTube and all other Social Media Channels
Reuniting Rock Music One Genre at a time! We’ve Got Work to do!
Reuniting Rock Music One Genre at a time!
We’ve Got Work to do!
Week 24 | June 14, 2018
By the Forgotten Woman, JoOnna Silberman
As you know, I have been writing about my conversations in my car with the 20 to 30 somethings set about Rock Music…as stated in my previous blog It’s Not Dead! The Resurgence of Rock Music and more out of 400 people (male and female from all over the world, but mostly the USA), approx. 99% (only 2 people preferred Hip Hop genres) in that age group prefer Rock Music to Hip Hop and they wish that there was more played on air, and accessible to the masses. This is important news, but not surprising to me. I have never thought that Rock was not popular. I have felt that the Hip Hop industry has done a better job of marketing and taken over the digital age leaving the public with the perception and misconception that Rock is outdated and no longer the popular and/or relevant…I am happy to say, this is untrue and Rock music is still the preferred genre and as relevant as it ever was (dare I say Same as it ever was!).
That said, how do we combat and/or bring it back up in the ranks through digital media and in the public eye? How do we give artists in an over-saturated market access to all the wonderful Rock Music which is out there, so they can weed out the garbage and how do we give musicians the ability to once again generate revenue in a market that has become impossible to sell music? You will hear people say, it’s in touring and selling merchandise, but the average musician doesn’t have the money to tour or produce merchandise. These are important questions which need to be addressed and where solutions need to be contrived and implemented. We are attempting to work on those solutions. But we need to fix what is broken first.
In order to do so, we need to break it down and see where the situation started and for me it is two-fold. The first and in my opinion, the most important event that occurred is the segregation of rock music. We have allowed ourselves to be compartmentalized into groups dictated to by the sub-genres. In the late 60’s and 70’s we were a power to be reckoned with, because Rock was under one umbrella. There was one chart and all the Rock Music fell under that chart it was the Hot 100 or Billboard 200. You would find Joni Mitchell with Pink Floyd, and the Rolling Stones with Gordon Lightfoot. There weren’t multiple genre charts only country and pop, which at the time meant popular music, and was not a genre, as it is now. Now there seems to be a chart for multitude of genres and we do not look at what’s new in rock music, we look at only what our preferences are. Back when we were mighty we were all exposed to all the music, regardless of what genre we preferred and thus it expanded our musical libraries. When we stopped looking at the industry as a whole, and not in parts, that’s when we stopped gaining momentum and losing our power. Our numbers seemed to dwindle, and by the 90’s and the advent of the digital age, we had settled and were not paying attention to the new technologies namely digital marketing and digital recording, and we allowed ourselves to be overtaken. The Hip Hop industry was, took advantage of it, and they changed music and changed the market forever which is a blessing in some ways and a curse in others. The outcome is musicians can no longer generate revenue from music sales and the industry has become oversaturated with garbage. Unless you have the capital to invest in heavy marketing, touring and merchandise it is almost impossible for a musician/band to make money.
The music has become more of a marketing tool to drive people to events and to sell merchandise and if and when a musician has the good fortune to become popular, perhaps their music will start to sell. But they have to become extremely popular for it to make any sort of financial difference. And the ability to make oneself popular today is so difficult, the cards are stacked against us from the onset with an over saturated market, so many different channels and noise.
What is the answer, well as I said, we need to break it down, see what is broken and start to build it back up…much like a car! When you have had a crash, they take the entire car apart and start to put it back together until it is in drivable again. Sometimes it is in better shape than before the accident and others it is totaled, and one has to purchase a new car. In this case, I do not think the industry is totaled I think we can put it back together, better than before. But we have to start where the issue began, and that is where the trouble began, in segregating rock music. I myself love many genres, but it has become obvious to me, that people have become very personal about what genres they like and what are the best. I challenge people to go out of their comfort zones and start to listen to other rock music, find new artists. I challenge Radio to start to play a variety of rock music new and old, not genre specific or mainstream (now don’t get me started on the mainstream rock music chart, which is not rock at all and all sounds the same). Take your lead from the BBC who are starting a new Rock Radio Show , which will include new artists, as well as the classics.
And then there are the music consumption ratings. If you do the math, Rock actually wins and Nielsen as well as BuzzAngle both collect the data in a way that skews the numbers. Nielsen by putting R & B and Hip Hop together when Hip Hop only has 21% of the market. And the fact is, if you do the math, Rock comes in at 23%. I think this will call for a blog down the road, because they seem to be segregating genres as well, but in a very different way, the only commonality between Hip Hop and R & B is the roots of the music, not the genre of music. I will leave that there for the moment…
Presently we are attempting to start to bring the genres back together in one place. We have created groups in Facebook for the time-being which will allow us to collect the music as part of the One Nation Under Rock initiative (https://bit.ly/2JKhXSj). We have created a page for Musicians and Music Industry Professionals which is a place to share resources, as questions and/or get feedback. We have created a Rock Music Fan Collective which will be a place for all rock genres to be posted, and we have created our first Genre focused page which will collect music to be shared on the main fan page, and if the song gets enough likes on the genre page, it will be spotlighted on the Collective page, and if it gets a good number of likes on the Collective page, it will be shared on the Forgotten Man Productions page and shared in other groups. We will build new genre specific pages every two months until we have a complete repository for all the genres. The hope is eventually we can build a chart, as well as, get radio stations to pay attention and start to participate. At the very least we will gain further visibility for truly great new artists who are getting lost in the weeds.
So what genre are we starting with? Well, the most difficult one of course…it was once said to me by a well-known progressive rock musician that the Prog Rock community are the most stubborn, cerebral, and most snobbish of all of Rock genres…and being that Progressive Rock is one of my favorite genres, I took exception to that comment, but he explained that although I might love the genre in addition to others, for a true Prog Rock fan there is no other… So, we figured we will start with you guys and I say that with the undying respect. We need you, because not only might you be (and notice I said might) the most stubborn, you are the most misunderstood genre, whereby people only listen to the mainstream pop Prog, and not all the beautiful music that is out there by prog artists all over the world. It almost seems like they are scared of it. So, I ask Prog fans and musicians to please lay down your prog on the new ProGject Facebook Page.
In the coming weeks, I will be writing about all the genres, starting with Progressive Rock Music and I hope that you will read, and listen, because to me, it is one of the most beautiful forms of rock music, as well as the most complex and multifaceted. I know you all like your Yes, Genesis, Rush King Crimson, Emerson Lake and Palmer, Peter Gabriel etc., but have you listened to others…perhaps you don’t realize you are listening to prog when you hear those bands, but you are.
We need to start at the beginning and reunite the rock industry so that we can take back the reins and start to make the music industry great again! The music is there!
I hope you will please join us on this journey and like our pages and read the blogs in the coming weeks. We are on a mission!!!
- MUSICIANS & MUSIC INDUSTRY PROFESSIONAL ONLY please ask to join our One Nation Under Rock (ONUR) – for Musicians and Music Industry Professionals
- ALL ROCK – MUSIC FANS, MUSICIANS and INDUSTRY PROFESSIONALS Please join our Rock Music Fans Collective
- PROG ROCK – MUSIC FANS, MUSICIANS, and INDUSTRY PROFESSIONALS please join PorGject
Cheers and thanks for reading,
JoOnna Silberman, The Forgotten Woman at Forgotten Man
Follow us on Facebook, and visit us on YouTube and all other Social Media Channels
Smoke and Mirrors Music: Can you Perform it Live?
Smoke and Mirrors Music: Can you Perform it Live?
Or Conversations while Driving, about Rock Music and the State of the Industry!
Week 23 | May 9, 2018
By the Forgotten Woman, JoOnna Silberman
Nathan from Golden:
On this night I was called to the Fox Theater in Boulder for a pick-up to Golden, CO. I had the pleasure of meeting Nathan who was tired and just wanted to get home…I hadn’t looked at the Marquee which I usually do, except for the fact that there was a good amount of traffic. I asked him how the show was, and his response was “Disappointing!” Then I asked the obvious question of who was performing. The response with little enthusiasm was Ghostface Killah. Admittedly I am not up on my rap names as I probably should be, so the next to questions were “who is that?” and “Why?”
I come to find out that Ghostface Killah is part of the Wu-Tang Clan, who I am familiar with, albeit, not its members. And the “Why?”; “Because he did not sound the same or at all like on his recorded tracks!” To which I responded because it’s all smoke and mirrors! His next statement somewhat shocked me, not because I was surprised by the answer, but because all of the sudden he was enthusiastic about it; “yeah, that’s what other people said!” and this is where the conversation began.
He seemed to want to talk about it, so I did. He asked me why I thought so. My answer simply was because the sound you hear on the tracks is all done in the Studio and most often cannot be recreated live no matter what the circumstances. I also relayed that this is the problem with Hip Hop. Much of what you hear on the tracks cannot be or is mindfully not recreated live. Either they can’t or they just won’t. While the cannot, is obvious, he wanted to know the “Won’t” …because it is too much work, too expensive and in some cases, the art of recreating it would show that they are not truly the talent behind the track, that is if they can recreate it.
I then opened the Kimono a little bit and divulged that I am really a Rock lover, and not a rap love, although there are artists that I do enjoy from time to time. At this point he let it be known he loved rock music and listened to it all the time. The conversation turned into a whose who of rock and of course most of the usual suspects were names. My search for new innovative artists. What we do at Forgotten Man and the purpose of One Nation Under Rock.
He then asked me what my misgivings were about the Hip Hop Industry at large (Again, there are some artists that I do respect and enjoy) and I explained.
The problem for me is multifaceted. First, the topic of the evening, that the music cannot or is not recreated live. For me, music of any kind must have 4 components. It must be composed, it must have counterpoints, it must have melody and harmony and it must be unique. In other words, it must have a structure that can be performed in the Studio and out of the Studio. Some might say that not every rock song could be performed live, this is true, and I most likely have a problem with those particular songs in the rock industry as well. But the fact is that it is not commonplace that Rock Music cannot be reproduced live, while it is commonplace that Hip Hop cannot. Also, while topics are common throughout both genres, it is the expression of the topic that must be unique. The lyric must be fresh and poetic, and the sound must be unique from band to band. When I listen to rap music, it seems to me that the lyrics are almost virtually the same and dependent upon how many expletives can be uttered in a single sentence and/or how many times the “N” word can be thrusted into the piece. Many of the tracks sound the same to me and do not portray the subject matter any differently.
Rock Musicians always spent a tremendous amount of time trying to figure out how they could reproduce a track live. I wrote about an example of this when I wrote the blog about the Wal Bass. Rick Wakeman was obsessed with having the same sound that was created in the studio, and thus the Wal was born. The quest for reproducing sound live in rock was always of the most importance to the musicians and the genre. The fact that it cannot be reproduced much of the time (not always) in Hip Hop is telling and leads me back to my original statement “Smoke and Mirrors”; while magic is great, it is a trick, nothing more. And we can ewww and ahhhh…all we want. A trick is a trick, nothing more.
Music is something that should be performed. The art of the musician, with other musicians; becoming one with their instruments and emanating a sound so individual and infectious that it permeates every one of our senses. Mastering an instrument, whether it be one’s voice, a guitar, keyboards, drums, percussion, bass, brass, strings, woodwind etc. takes a lifetime. Being able to manipulate that instrument to produce a sound through you is an art and being able to convey the sentiment through a song regardless of and complimenting the lyric is a triumph. It is the combination of all of these things that make it music. No matter what the genre or sub genres are. Hip Hop is primarily done by the engineer and kudos to them. But when it cannot be performed live and convey the same feeling as the recording, therein lies the problem. And when the conveyance of topics and sentiments are not fresh and/or unique, as well as the sound, to me that is a travesty. We can all sing about love and hate, but it is how we do it and the differences in perception that matter.
It was suggested to me by a seasoned musician, now producer, that it is because I am not used to it. And no, that’s not it, because how could I like Missy, Busta, Eminem, Kendrick, Wiz Khalifa and others if I that were the case? I am not limited in my tastes and try desperately to embrace all music. I just prefer Rock and Blues to most. But there is a reason for that and it is in all that I have said above. Get raw, get real and get seasoned and most importantly get music. Oh, and on a personal note, if you need Autotune to produce, you have lost me right there. Learn how to sing!
I am sure that many of you will take umbrage with my analysis, especially those who love Hip Hop genres. That’s okay, and frankly, I am not dissing Hip Hop, just saying that there are a limited number of artists today in that culture that I feel could and should be considered musicians and/or accomplished or actually unique with their own sound. When you cannot perform a track and evoke the same feeling or convey the same message live that you have done in the studio, it is not successful. This is why I love rock music so much, it embraces and respects the music that came before it while creating a unique sound and being able to share it live as well as recorded in a way that is exciting to all almost all the senses, except for smell, however, if you have ever been to a rock concert, the smells are unique as well and bring back fond memories. It seems to me, that many Hip Hop artists (again, not all) shun all but one genre, perhaps purposefully and in protest. Nothing was every gained by limiting one’s self. Respect the roots and the individuality of music. Don’t box yourself in to a stereotype. Start to expand. There are several who do, but unfortunately not enough.
Thanks Nathan for riding with me and sharing your thoughts. I am so happy to know that you still listen to and are excited by rock music, and truly appreciate the exchange.
Stay tuned for more conversations and blogs. In the coming weeks I will be discussing EDM as well as Hip Hop Rock the next big thing. In addition, the ProGject and our ONUR Initiative.
Cheers and thanks for reading,
JoOnna Silberman, The Forgotten Woman at Forgotten Man
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It’s Not Dead! The Resurgence of Rock Music and more
It’s Not Dead! The Resurgence of Rock Music and more
Or Conversations while Driving, about Rock Music and the State of the Industry!
Week 22 | April 19, 2018
By the Forgotten Woman, JoOnna Silberman
Authors Note: First, I would like to apologize for the long break from writing the blog and thank all of you for your patience and support during the past three and a half months. It’s been a while and writing this is not easy, but hopefully at the very least it will take me to the next stage of recovery and the words will start to flow with ease.
On a positive note through all this, is that I couldn’t do my primary job which is Forgotten Man and had to rely on my supplemental job which is driving for Lyft. Why positive, because the conversations I had about rock music were phenomenal and breathtaking. Gave me hope. This blog is about what I found throughout my travels with the many I drove thousands of miles.
There have been many conversations over the past three plus months in the car that I would like to share. These conversations gave me hope and have influenced me to just fight harder and have ignited and stronger drive to rejuvenate, reinvigorate and reunite all that is Rock Music.
Overview
On any given day, I pick up at least 25-40 different people, however the majority of these people are in their 20s and early 30s (more 20’s than 30’s) give or take. In 3 months I have completed 1077 rides. Conversation is rampant during these drives. Some long and some short. The question always comes up “do you drive full-time?” and when I tell them that my primary job is rock music the heavens open and out pours volunteered feelings and emotions about the subject…
On average 80% of these rides are 20 somethings. Out of that 80% I have had conversations about the subject with approximately 45% – 50% of them. Which is approximately 400 individuals. In the entire time only 2 passengers and 2 of my baristas (at the Brewing Market in Boulder Colorado, where I get my daily cup) embrace Hip Hop and the rest are all on the Rock Music band wagon listening to both old and new Rock. Agreeing with me that what is labeled as Rock these days, is not actually rock and wanting desperately to hear more new artists in the genre and bring back the creativity, musicality and composition of the influencers and classic artists of the past. The older bands that they reference are of course, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Genesis, Black Sabbath…and as far as new bands, except for some really well-versed music aficionados I keep hearing the name Greta Van Fleet, who of course I know well and have listened to on multiple occasions. Some of the 45% are actually musicians and all are focusing on Rock, not Hip Hop or Rap (except for my lovely baristas). So, over the coming weeks I will try to outline some of the conversations that I had which will enlighten a little bit, and then follow-up with a summary of the state of rock as I see it. This is the first conversation and it is dedicated to Oli!
My Barista Oli
Oli is a musician and guitarist who plays rock music, however also embraces the Hip Hop culture, while the other Barista I believe is strictly a Hip Hop Musician. Of course, my take on Hip Hop is and has always been that it is smoke and mirrors, that the majority of it lacks the musicality, composition, structure and poetry (lyric) which I find necessary for an enjoyable track (don’t get your panties in a twist!!!) Key word being “majority”, not all. There are artists who I find extremely talented, but they are far and few between…I conveyed my feelings to Oli, stating that I tend to love a limited number of Rap artists , because I found them to be more creative and I do not like Hip Hop as a whole. I sighted some that I love like Missy Elliot, Eminem, Busta, Kendrick Lamar etc. and said that didn’t like Hip Hop artists that much…Well, that is where the argument ensued. “rap is Hip Hop !”, he retorts. “No, they are rap artists” I spew back; let me just say that Oli is extremely knowledgeable, and well rounded. I respect his opinion, but we tend to differ in the way we view it and that probably has to do with age. He believes it is semantics and I believe it is more that that. Why is this important one might ask? Because history of music is important and to know where music came from and how it evolved is paramount. How it came to be and how it has been enabled to influence. How it has been perverted and or manipulated. What it stands for and what it stood for.
The problem I see here is not a semantic one, but youth not having lived during the time when this all happened. Facts are that it all began with rappers in the early 70’s. The term Hip Hop was used in a limited way and introduced by an artist named Keith Cowboy, rapper with Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, it however did not gain worldwide recognition until the 1990’s through an article in Time magazine by Janice C. Thompson. Hip Hop refers to a Culture, while Rap refers to a music. Hip Hop covers many genres of which Rap falls under. When talking about music Rap is the correct term, as well as additional genres. When talking about Culture Hip Hop is the correct term. Here is a list of all Hip Hop genres provide by our friends at Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hip_hop_genres
For those of us who grew up in the 70s it all began with Rap music. It began with DJ Kool Herc. Herc, a Jamaican immigrant, started delivering simple raps at his parties, which some claim were inspired by the Jamaican tradition of toasting. However, the artform goes back much further than the 1970s and predates Hip Hop by hundreds of years.
History of Rap music can be found in this article and it is extremely interesting. I learned a lot.
http://colemizestudios.com/how-did-rap-start/
“Rap as a genre began at block parties in New York City in the early 1970s, when DJs began isolating the percussion breaks of funk, soul, and disco songs and extending them. MCs tasked with introducing the DJs and keeping the crowd energized would talk between songs, joking and generally interacting with the audience. Over time, it became common for the MCs (or rappers, as they soon became known) to talk and rhyme over and in sync with the music. Initially dismissed as a fad, rap music proved its commercial viability in 1979 with the release of The Sugarhill Gang’s “Rapper’s Delight,” and then again in 1980 with Kurtis Blow’s “The Breaks,” a Top 5 hit that eventually went gold.” ~ David Dye, NPR “The Birth of Rap: A Look Back”
While Oli is correct in that that Rap music and artists are now part of Hip Hop culture, Rap music is what gave birth to, and launched Hip Hop. It predates the culture by a many, many moons. It is only part of what Hip Hop is, but for many who were born after 1990 all they know is Hip Hop and what it has evolved into, which is understandable. But to me rap is the most important part, because I am not sure that without it that Hip Hop would exist or have become what it is today. While Hip Hop is much larger than the rap genre itself and comprised of several different elements, rap is what started it. Its history makes it more prevalent. It is an art form for which I am eternally grateful. The poetry can be breathtaking. Unfortunately, there are few who do it exceptionally and only recently has music (not sampling) come into the forefront except for a limited number of artists I have mentioned, who embraced composition from the beginning. It is the lack of musicality, instruments and composition that makes me hesitate in calling most Hip Hop music, but for a few. I was thrilled to see Kendrick Lamar receive the Pulitzer Prize for DAMN and see him working with artists like U2. This clip from the Grammy’s sent shivers up my spine. https://youtu.be/QeFwtA3p4Mw. He is one of the few. I hope it keeps heading in this trajectory because then perhaps we can talk in terms of music. Now, please do not be offended. I respect it as an art form completely, but we are talking music here, so when the conversation can include all rap artists than I will discuss it as a music genre as a whole. My problem with Hip Hop is multifaceted which I will discuss in coming blogs as this series of conversations are unveiled.
Why is it important to understand these nuances and discuss the music of today in terms genre and relevance? Because Rock Music is apparently, judging by my rides, not dead and is listened to as much as, if not more than Hip Hop. So why is Hip Hop the majority of what we are hearing about and/or what the kids are listening to; or what is being played? These conversations have provided the answer for me and I see it as clearly as I can see myself in the mirror, which is a revelation and acceptance that must be explored.
In the coming weeks…
Over the coming weeks I will convey additional conversations which include one young mans disappointment at seeing his favorite Hip Hop artist and another about Greta Van Fleet. In addition to the influx of Jam Bands, as well as the lack of excitement in the new electronic wave. Not to mention Hip Hop Rock, which was suggested by another rider. It will all culminate into a summary of what I believe needs to be done if the market and fans (considering that there is a great desire for rock music and a fact that I cannot ignore that it is as much in demand as it ever was, if not more) are going to get what they want and we are going to rise again. What can we do and what needs to be done. But let’s understand all the different components first like history and the genres themselves. In past blogs I wrote about the roots of Rock , now I am writing about the history of where we are today and the mainstream music that has taken over the airwaves. In the end, it all comes down to a beat which echoes loudly throughout music. There is room for both and one is not better than the other, it is just different. However, we need to take charge and get in the game. I am thrilled to hear that many of our youth and not few, like I had lamented, love, need and want more Rock!
I hope you will follow the blog while I break this down. I will give you a hint. It was and always has been a marketing problem, we as the rock industry let it happen and fell behind the curve and have let it go on too long. So, let’s get started and follow the blog and let’s see where it leads us. I am not laying down a gauntlet or declaring war. I am saying that there is room for all. But we need to unify, rectify and learn what’s broken!
Cheers and thank you for reading,
JoOnna Silberman, The Forgotten Woman at Forgotten Man
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Please note that I am still recovering from a concussion, if there are typos in this piece, I apologize. Simply let me know via email and/or through messenger on Facebook…
Kendrick Lamar, Bono and The Edge by CBS.com